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11/29/2015 10:27 am  #1


We are all doomed!

New litter of ABs being offered for $200 on eBay (Inland Empire). New litter of ABs being offered for $325 (Sacramento).

 

11/29/2015 6:28 pm  #2


Re: We are all doomed!

Ask them if they are cool with financing...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

11/29/2015 9:39 pm  #3


Re: We are all doomed!

I don't know how anyone would be doomed. Anyone who has wanted an American Bulldog could go to a shelter and get one for the last 10 years or some backyard breeder for the same price as you listed for over 2 decades.

Prices like this is what separates quality from quantity. Its like buying a car. Yes, I can drive a hyundai and do so on the cheap, but it will never be a Ferrari. If you are shooting for peak quality with an un-biased eye, then you should be consistintly producing the top 1% quality in this breed. If you are not in that upper echelon in this breed you are failing this breed, no matter how much money you have made from it. With failure you can learn from it, so this isn't an attack on anyone but really do your homework and see these dogs in person and educate yourself as best you can. Set goals and achieve goals, then the best homes will come.

Where this breed is truly doomed is these breeders breeding train wrecks of an American Bulldog. Most of the dogs you see today I wouldn't take for free. That is more sad then doomed if you ask me.

 

12/02/2015 5:35 pm  #4


Re: We are all doomed!

Marcel is it true that top quality working dogs have to be given away because they don't generate sales??? Jeff Dailey once mentioned titled dog litters had to be given away...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/02/2015 11:31 pm  #5


Re: We are all doomed!

Uncle Ish wrote:

Marcel is it true that top quality working dogs have to be given away because they don't generate sales??? Jeff Dailey once mentioned titled dog litters had to be given away...

Ish I don't think Jeff Dailey knows much of anything about working dogs or breeding bulldogs to work.

I myself never had difficulty placing pups. Now I did give a pup or two away in most litters, but that was because I wanted my best pups in the hands of someone who would truly work the dog. I am not talking about just Bulldog work like an Iron Dog but more so Ring, PSA or Schutzhund. Then again my average litters had a minimum of 9 pups and a maximum of 16 over the last 5 years I breed.

Most working people don't brag about there dogs all over the internet and many working people do not do the Bulldog scene. I think if more did a quarter of the marketing you see from people in the bully world it would be better.

 

12/04/2015 2:22 pm  #6


Re: We are all doomed!

Uncle Ish wrote:

Marcel is it true that top quality working dogs have to be given away because they don't generate sales??? Jeff Dailey once mentioned titled dog litters had to be given away...

 
There may be some truth to that but it by no means is indicative of a poorly bred litter, if anything it just speaks to supply and demand.  Let's face it...most people in the AB are not into this breed for what it can do.  The thing is...only a select few breeders in the AB are interested in preserving the breed's true function and the majority buyer's surely didn't get into this breed because it was a working dog.  The argument will always be..."Well...they don't bait bulls anymore".  The breed has slowly changed over time...i mean it is...what it is...but again...I don't think that's indicative of quality...if anything...it speaks about the quantity of pets that are being sold.  When i got into this breed...my t-shirt quote said "Quality...not Quantity".  Meaning i'm not interested in how many pups i sell...but more interested in the quality of the product i produce.  You spoke about quality working dogs being given away...well how many pets are put down or culled on a daily basis?  Most people want a big, cuddly, cool looking pet...so to be honest...I expect them to sell more.  It's just not good for a working breed in my opinion.  Another point is that most European working dog sports use European breeds...so the bulldog is not the first choice of dog.  It would be cool if it was...because more working ABs would be sought after.

Last edited by Thunder Road (12/04/2015 2:38 pm)


"The only thing worse than being blind, is having sight but no vision".
- Helen Keller

www.ThunderRoadBulldogs.com
 

12/04/2015 6:41 pm  #7


Re: We are all doomed!

Marcelnorcalsbulldogs wrote:

Uncle Ish wrote:

Marcel is it true that top quality working dogs have to be given away because they don't generate sales??? Jeff Dailey once mentioned titled dog litters had to be given away...

Ish I don't think Jeff Dailey knows much of anything about working dogs or breeding bulldogs to work.

I myself never had difficulty placing pups. Now I did give a pup or two away in most litters, but that was because I wanted my best pups in the hands of someone who would truly work the dog. I am not talking about just Bulldog work like an Iron Dog but more so Ring, PSA or Schutzhund. Then again my average litters had a minimum of 9 pups and a maximum of 16 over the last 5 years I breed.

Most working people don't brag about there dogs all over the internet and many working people do not do the Bulldog scene. I think if more did a quarter of the marketing you see from people in the bully world it would be better.

You make some good points... are there still very many working kennels left???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/04/2015 6:45 pm  #8


Re: We are all doomed!

Thunder Road wrote:

Uncle Ish wrote:

Marcel is it true that top quality working dogs have to be given away because they don't generate sales??? Jeff Dailey once mentioned titled dog litters had to be given away...

 
There may be some truth to that but it by no means is indicative of a poorly bred litter, if anything it just speaks to supply and demand.  Let's face it...most people in the AB are not into this breed for what it can do.  The thing is...only a select few breeders in the AB are interested in preserving the breed's true function and the majority buyer's surely didn't get into this breed because it was a working dog.  The argument will always be..."Well...they don't bait bulls anymore".  The breed has slowly changed over time...i mean it is...what it is...but again...I don't think that's indicative of quality...if anything...it speaks about the quantity of pets that are being sold.  When i got into this breed...my t-shirt quote said "Quality...not Quantity".  Meaning i'm not interested in how many pups i sell...but more interested in the quality of the product i produce.  You spoke about quality working dogs being given away...well how many pets are put down or culled on a daily basis?  Most people want a big, cuddly, cool looking pet...so to be honest...I expect them to sell more.  It's just not good for a working breed in my opinion.  Another point is that most European working dog sports use European breeds...so the bulldog is not the first choice of dog.  It would be cool if it was...because more working ABs would be sought after.

I think most can't handle a driven bulldog like you pointed out...

Bully dogs can have drive but the endurance is greatly limited... burst of drive in short doses is one thing but a dog that can go for hours is another...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/05/2015 6:59 pm  #9


Re: We are all doomed!

I would rather sell pups for 325 to pet homes than sell them for 1500 to breeders.  The dogs that are trained the best, taken care of the best, and have the best all around lives have been the cheapest dogs I have sold.  Of course they are sold without breeding rights or papers.  In fact pet homes is all I will sell to at this point.


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/churchiller/AdobeIllustratorCCScreenSnapz043.jpg
 

12/07/2015 11:03 pm  #10


Re: We are all doomed!

CCB wrote:

I would rather sell pups for 325 to pet homes than sell them for 1500 to breeders.  The dogs that are trained the best, taken care of the best, and have the best all around lives have been the cheapest dogs I have sold.  Of course they are sold without breeding rights or papers.  In fact pet homes is all I will sell to at this point.

 
CCB when did you realize pet homes were best???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/08/2015 9:26 am  #11


Re: We are all doomed!

I guess it depends on the end game, so to speak. Is your end game $, notoriety, or something else? Not that I breed a whole lot, but, I've sold very few pups over the years. The ones that were sold were sold at a working man's price. All of mine go to hunting/working homes with breeding rights. My end game...to keep and make woods dogs that suit me. To do that I need the dogs to be worked hard and to prove themselves breedworthy, or a cull. The only way that happens is for them to go to working homes.

 

12/08/2015 12:45 pm  #12


Re: We are all doomed!

Uncle Ish wrote:

CCB wrote:

I would rather sell pups for 325 to pet homes than sell them for 1500 to breeders.  The dogs that are trained the best, taken care of the best, and have the best all around lives have been the cheapest dogs I have sold.  Of course they are sold without breeding rights or papers.  In fact pet homes is all I will sell to at this point.

 
CCB when did you realize pet homes were best???

It was apparent early on dating back to our first litters.  You will see that very few of our dogs went to kennels.  And it wasn't because there wasn't a demand.  I have e-mails from some of the biggest breeders in the history of the breed asking for stock.
 


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/churchiller/AdobeIllustratorCCScreenSnapz043.jpg
 

12/09/2015 6:27 am  #13


Re: We are all doomed!

Scott wrote:

I guess it depends on the end game, so to speak. Is your end game $, notoriety, or something else? Not that I breed a whole lot, but, I've sold very few pups over the years. The ones that were sold were sold at a working man's price. All of mine go to hunting/working homes with breeding rights. My end game...to keep and make woods dogs that suit me. To do that I need the dogs to be worked hard and to prove themselves breedworthy, or a cull. The only way that happens is for them to go to working homes.

 
Scott would your dogs be suitable for pet homes???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/09/2015 6:29 am  #14


Re: We are all doomed!

CCB wrote:

Uncle Ish wrote:

CCB wrote:

I would rather sell pups for 325 to pet homes than sell them for 1500 to breeders.  The dogs that are trained the best, taken care of the best, and have the best all around lives have been the cheapest dogs I have sold.  Of course they are sold without breeding rights or papers.  In fact pet homes is all I will sell to at this point.

 
CCB when did you realize pet homes were best???

It was apparent early on dating back to our first litters.  You will see that very few of our dogs went to kennels.  And it wasn't because there wasn't a demand.  I have e-mails from some of the biggest breeders in the history of the breed asking for stock.
 

 
Do you prefer breeding homes in Europe??? They seem to be taking things a bit more serious...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/09/2015 8:51 am  #15


Re: We are all doomed!

Uncle Ish wrote:

Scott wrote:

I guess it depends on the end game, so to speak. Is your end game $, notoriety, or something else? Not that I breed a whole lot, but, I've sold very few pups over the years. The ones that were sold were sold at a working man's price. All of mine go to hunting/working homes with breeding rights. My end game...to keep and make woods dogs that suit me. To do that I need the dogs to be worked hard and to prove themselves breedworthy, or a cull. The only way that happens is for them to go to working homes.

 
Scott would your dogs be suitable for pet homes???

Not sure I understand what you're asking, Ish. But, if your question is regarding having the correct temperament to fit into a pet home...the answer is yes, they do.
 

 

12/09/2015 2:03 pm  #16


Re: We are all doomed!

I am of the some opinion as Scott. Where did the rumors of working Bulldogs do not make good pet dogs start. I would think it is the opposite. Working dogs have more of an emphasis on temperament then a dog breed for looks.

In my years in Bulldogs the highest percentage of bad temperaments i see comes from the exaggerated Bully type. I have seen overtly shy and scared, fear biters that breeders portray as tough dogs, extreme environmental issues and just an utter lack of control of the animal. This is not to say I haven't seen these qualities in the other types of Bulldogs because I have, just at a far less percentage.

Though whenever I read about what makes a bad pet dog it comes against the working dogs. Yes, I breed for a more man driven Bulldog, but I also wanted social and intelligent dogs with strong environmental nerve. My dogs are useless if they are so overtly aggressive that strangers can't touch them or they can not adapt to new environmental places or sounds.

I would believe breeding several litters a year where you are using countless dogs that there is no way the proper time to evaluate is put in. Where these dogs are being deemed breed worthy based on how they look versus think would bare a strong chance to produce a poor temperament. There are just too many steps being skipped.

 

12/09/2015 7:31 pm  #17


Re: We are all doomed!

$100 dogs actually don't doom the breed as much as those pos $1500 dogs that the leading puppymillers in the breed have put out there and told folks that don't know better , that they are good representatives of the breed ............ you need to get good dogs out there to show those folks what a good dog is .............

 

12/10/2015 6:21 am  #18


Re: We are all doomed!

Scott wrote:

Uncle Ish wrote:

Scott wrote:

I guess it depends on the end game, so to speak. Is your end game $, notoriety, or something else? Not that I breed a whole lot, but, I've sold very few pups over the years. The ones that were sold were sold at a working man's price. All of mine go to hunting/working homes with breeding rights. My end game...to keep and make woods dogs that suit me. To do that I need the dogs to be worked hard and to prove themselves breedworthy, or a cull. The only way that happens is for them to go to working homes.

 
Scott would your dogs be suitable for pet homes???

Not sure I understand what you're asking, Ish. But, if your question is regarding having the correct temperament to fit into a pet home...the answer is yes, they do.
 

 
I guess most of the standard dogs I have worked in the past had over the top intense drive and we're almost like a mali  in the fact they weren't programmed to be couch potatoes... They could chill and be good pets for a while but ultimately they needed an outlet for there drive on very consistent basis or things would go south...

Most bully dogs come from a selection criterion of look bully, eat, Shizzy, breed and repeat... Some are content with a gallop around the yard or a walk around the black has the highest form of "work" they will do...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

12/10/2015 6:23 am  #19


Re: We are all doomed!

Marcelnorcalsbulldogs wrote:

I am of the some opinion as Scott. Where did the rumors of working Bulldogs do not make good pet dogs start. I would think it is the opposite. Working dogs have more of an emphasis on temperament then a dog breed for looks.

In my years in Bulldogs the highest percentage of bad temperaments i see comes from the exaggerated Bully type. I have seen overtly shy and scared, fear biters that breeders portray as tough dogs, extreme environmental issues and just an utter lack of control of the animal. This is not to say I haven't seen these qualities in the other types of Bulldogs because I have, just at a far less percentage.

Though whenever I read about what makes a bad pet dog it comes against the working dogs. Yes, I breed for a more man driven Bulldog, but I also wanted social and intelligent dogs with strong environmental nerve. My dogs are useless if they are so overtly aggressive that strangers can't touch them or they can not adapt to new environmental places or sounds.

I would believe breeding several litters a year where you are using countless dogs that there is no way the proper time to evaluate is put in. Where these dogs are being deemed breed worthy based on how they look versus think would bare a strong chance to produce a poor temperament. There are just too many steps being skipped.

 
I would have loved to have met your dogs... Seems like you and Scott covered all the bases in you're programs...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

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