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5/20/2015 9:03 am  #1


HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Has the checking of hips fallen down a bit on the ladder of up most importance in breeding??? Seems to not get mentioned has much...

Your thoughts???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
 

5/20/2015 7:47 pm  #2


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

We think its just as important today as it was  5 years ago. Why not arm your self with the knowledge?  If you agree or not... we use it to make more informed breeding choices.

Just my 2 cents


Morgan & Judie
MoJo's American Bulldogs
What you do today as a breeder, effects our tomorrow as a whole....
 

5/20/2015 8:26 pm  #3


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

We continue to test using X-ray.  The only thing we have changed is testing them physically through weight pull!!


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5/20/2015 9:17 pm  #4


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

CCB wrote:

We continue to test using X-ray. The only thing we have changed is testing them physically through weight pull!!

http://poemsontheworkplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lego-poster-trust-you-have-to-believe.gif

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/31525_20121030_200443_bullshit_quotes_05.jpg

 

Last edited by BHB (5/20/2015 9:30 pm)


Love off
 

5/20/2015 10:30 pm  #5


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

BHB wrote:

CCB wrote:

We continue to test using X-ray. The only thing we have changed is testing them physically through weight pull!!

http://poemsontheworkplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lego-poster-trust-you-have-to-believe.gif

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/31525_20121030_200443_bullshit_quotes_05.jpg

 

V, do you check hips??  Why don't you check your females hips??  Are they not as important as the males??

In the BMJ X Fiji litter, 3 dogs were tested, 3 failed PH.  This didn't stop you from breeding Frida and Reign did it??  You are the biggest hypocrit in this breed!!  Do as V says, but not as he does!!
 


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5/21/2015 12:03 am  #6


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

CCB wrote:

BHB wrote:

CCB wrote:

We continue to test using X-ray. The only thing we have changed is testing them physically through weight pull!!

http://poemsontheworkplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lego-poster-trust-you-have-to-believe.gif

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/31525_20121030_200443_bullshit_quotes_05.jpg

 

V, do you check hips?? Why don't you check your females hips?? Are they not as important as the males??

In the BMJ X Fiji litter, 3 dogs were tested, 3 failed PH. This didn't stop you from breeding Frida and Reign did it?? You are the biggest hypocrit in this breed!! Do as V says, but not as he does!!
 

I do PH all my males, curemtly i have two males in the top 10% of the breed, <29.29 and .32.32 ...my loosest is .40.49.  I have a tight line that is 10 generations deep,  on record for producing the highest number of tight hips in this breed for the last 15yrs,  I'd love to check all of my females i just can't afford it anymore and have more important goals....but what is your reasoning that female Catfish comes from the tightest PennHIP male 3/4 Brave Heart from two dogs I produced, but her mother Taboo is from a sire Ulee with nearly 100% PHs in .6-.8  and Taboo has thrown two whole litters of dysplastic pups....LOL Catfish is linebred Ulee
 

 


Love off
 

5/21/2015 12:07 am  #7


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

BHB wrote:

CCB wrote:

BHB wrote:


http://poemsontheworkplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lego-poster-trust-you-have-to-believe.gif

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/31525_20121030_200443_bullshit_quotes_05.jpg

 

V, do you check hips?? Why don't you check your females hips?? Are they not as important as the males??

In the BMJ X Fiji litter, 3 dogs were tested, 3 failed PH. This didn't stop you from breeding Frida and Reign did it?? You are the biggest hypocrit in this breed!! Do as V says, but not as he does!!
 

I do PH all my males, curemtly i have two males in the top 10% of the breed, <29.29 and .32.32 ...my loosest is .40.49.  I have a tight line that is 10 generations deep,  on record for producing the highest number of tight hips in this breed for the last 15yrs,  I'd love to check all of my females i just can't afford it anymore and have more important goals....but what is your reasoning that female Catfish comes from the tightest PennHIP male 3/4 Brave Heart from two dogs I produced, but her mother Taboo is from a sire Ulee with nearly 100% PHs in .6-.8  and Taboo has thrown two whole litters of dysplastic pups....LOL Catfish is linebred Ulee
 

 

V, Why don't you PH your females.  You are a HYPOCRIT!!  Taboo produced better hips than Fiji!!  She produced better hips than Gracie!!  Fiji produced a dog with a .65, .82, PH, and Gracie produced a dog with an .85, .92 PH LOL!!  In the BMJ X Fiji litter, all 3 pups tested failed.  In the Bo X Gracie litter 2 out of 3 pups failed!!  V, there is a reason you aren't checking those hips!!
 


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5/21/2015 5:34 am  #8


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

It feels like it was a crime to not penn hip both parents before breeding a couple years ago... Some would argue the fever to penn hip was to drive sales...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
     Thread Starter
 

5/21/2015 9:00 am  #9


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Uncle Ish wrote:

Some would argue the fever to penn hip was to drive sales...

it absolutely was , now it's the "performance bully"  TFF ..........

the only ones that claimed it was a crime was v and his minions .......


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,


 

Last edited by me (5/21/2015 9:04 am)

 

5/21/2015 4:29 pm  #10


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

ME how do you evaluate hips in your DDB??? By longevity of functional hips???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
     Thread Starter
 

5/21/2015 7:54 pm  #11


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Uncle Ish wrote:

ME how do you evaluate hips in your DDB??? By longevity of functional hips???

with an x-ray . and breeding dogs with normal hips .......... i believe it works as good as any method .........hip type is a trait like any other ....... you couldn't breed a  specific type dog without seeing the type dogs you were breeding , and you can't breed a specific type hip without seeing what type hip your breeding ......... an x-ray doesn't cost but a couple hundred dollars  , an abnormal hip is pretty easy to see , if you can't  see it your vet should certainly be able too , if he can't  , you really do need a better vet .........
 

 

5/23/2015 6:57 am  #12


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Well penn hip has made a killing... But most breed clubs and registries brain wash you from early on to OFA or penn hip all stock and only purchase from those that do this evaluation... It isn't surprising to see it rub off on this breed either...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
     Thread Starter
 

5/23/2015 8:43 am  #13


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Uncle Ish wrote:

Well penn hip has made a killing... But most breed clubs and registries brain wash you from early on to OFA or penn hip all stock and only purchase from those that do this evaluation... It isn't surprising to see it rub off on this breed either...

about 5 months ago i was waiting at the vet clinic , a guy and girl sitting next to me had a rescued adult american bulldog , he was a really nice looking dog , sweet temperament , they had just had the ortho vet take a look at him , he had bad knees , bad hips and bad elbows , it was totally sad to me ....... a couple great people that took on the time and expense to give that dog the best chance he has ............ i honestly don't know how you could unintentionally possibly produce such an orthopedic wreck ....... over a decade ago i was taking a dog to the vet , a woman with an AB was walking in too, the dog  had a horrible skin condition , either demodex or an allergy , his eyes were swollen and running gunk ,  he  limped so badly you couldn't tell where it was coming from ........ been my experience that healthy dogs do not produce this extreme of bad health ....... pennhip is good info if your dog has good hips , if they don't it's worthless ........ we've all seen .3's and .4's with bad hips , haven't we ????? as we have seen dogs with .6's and .7's with good hips ??????
 

Last edited by me (5/23/2015 8:53 am)

 

5/23/2015 1:56 pm  #14


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

BHB wrote:

I do PH all my males, curemtly i have two males in the top 10% of the breed, <29.29 and .32.32 ...my loosest is .40.49.   

Why would you check hips at all, if you are going to only check the males??  Isn't there two dogs responsible for a breeding??  You have done this for how long??  About 8 years or more.  So for 8 years you have only known what your males hips were.  During that time you were breeding BMJ with median hips and poor hip production.  Fiji produced Reign and Frida who came from a litter of 5, and 3/3 of the dogs tested failed PH.  Fiji produced several bad hips when bred to BMJ (100% BH).  Gracie had median hips and produced bad hips when bred to Bo (100%) BMJ.  In that breeding 2/3 dogs failed PH.  So Vito, why don't you tell me how those PH's have helped your current dogs.  Because you only know half of the equation, what the males hips were!!  Check out Dyna's PH.  Check out Destiny Child's PH.  And throw in the fact that you don't know what these females hips are how can you come to a conclusion on what your programs hips are..............What is the overal percentage of pups tested??  And would that accurately depict your outcomes??

Fiji--3/3 littermates failed PH
Kat Von D--Produced Fiji
Frida--3/3 littermates failed PH
Zelda--paper hung olde
Bluezilla
Janga
Trouble--Inbred to Jacq, produced .56, .61 hips
Supra
Toasta--2/3 littermates failed PH   
Hazey
Bonzi
Boudica
Iron Twiggy
 

Last edited by CCB (5/23/2015 1:58 pm)


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5/23/2015 2:00 pm  #15


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Best way to have good hips is to follow what Mark has said.  Breed dogs with good hips.  If you want to breed good dogs.  Breed healthy dogs that live to be old ages with out the need for more than normal maintenance vet care.  Stop breeding puppies, and breed adult dogs free of problems.

If you want to breed unhealthy dogs.  Breed puppies, untested dogs, while chasing generations!!  A responsible program based on proven dogs, health testing, good specimens etc. doesn't have 13 -14 generations of dogs in 20 years of breeding!!

Last edited by CCB (5/23/2015 2:02 pm)


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5/24/2015 1:01 pm  #16


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Sometimes I feel breeders use every excuse in the world not to health check (hips included) their dogs.  'Oh,you dont really need it......or..ive seen dogs with good hips have bad hips.....or...it doesnt tell you anything....blah blah'.

Yet ive seen same prices for non health tested dogs as tested dogs.  Hell even higher.  Breeders can do what they want, but I know id pick a breeder that health tested (and not just hips) their dogs over one who doesnt.  And lets not forget temperament testing, which like NO ONE does.

Just my opinion, but i think more breeders dont test for things like hips,temperament,or health conditions that may be a problem within their breed because they know their dogs wont pass.
 

Last edited by VirginiaMT (5/24/2015 1:02 pm)

 

5/24/2015 1:25 pm  #17


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

VirginiaMT wrote:

Sometimes I feel breeders use every excuse in the world not to health check (hips included) their dogs.  'Oh,you dont really need it......or..ive seen dogs with good hips have bad hips.....or...it doesnt tell you anything....blah blah'.

Yet ive seen same prices for non health tested dogs as tested dogs.  Hell even higher.  Breeders can do what they want, but I know id pick a breeder that health tested (and not just hips) their dogs over one who doesnt.  And lets not forget temperament testing, which like NO ONE does.

Just my opinion, but i think more breeders dont test for things like hips,temperament,or health conditions that may be a problem within their breed because they know their dogs wont pass.
 

Nice post and I agree!!


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5/24/2015 1:34 pm  #18


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

VirginiaMT wrote:

Sometimes I feel breeders use every excuse in the world not to health check (hips included) their dogs.  'Oh,you dont really need it......or..ive seen dogs with good hips have bad hips.....or...it doesnt tell you anything....blah blah'.

Yet ive seen same prices for non health tested dogs as tested dogs.  Hell even higher.  Breeders can do what they want, but I know id pick a breeder that health tested (and not just hips) their dogs over one who doesnt.  And lets not forget temperament testing, which like NO ONE does.

Just my opinion, but i think more breeders dont test for things like hips,temperament,or health conditions that may be a problem within their breed because they know their dogs wont pass.
 

 
Good post.  Temperament is a tricky characteristic though bc people all appear to want something different in a dog. It is very important for a breeder to be open with the buyer about what type of dog they are getting imo.

 

5/24/2015 2:36 pm  #19


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

OK, lets just use hips as an example. Say a dog is worked rigorously, regularly, and frequently. Said dog lives to be 12+ years old. This dog never shows any sign of lameness or being structually unsound...does it really matter what a diagnostic test shows on their hips?

 

5/24/2015 3:22 pm  #20


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Scott wrote:

OK, lets just use hips as an example. Say a dog is worked rigorously, regularly, and frequently. Said dog lives to be 12+ years old. This dog never shows any sign of lameness or being structually unsound...does it really matter what a diagnostic test shows on their hips?

 
No!!  But how many people are waiting on a dog to live to an old age before breeding??  How many people are testing rigorously period??  IMO both of these are better than an x-ray.  IMO this means health, longevity, working ability, and in most cases probably temperament as well.  But who in bully AB's is doing this?? 

Hosfelts Dupree won UPF Nationals for the 4th or 5th time last year at the age of 8.  He is still pulling competitively at 9 years of age, maybe will win again.  I wouldn't need to see a hip x-ray to breed to this dog................

Last edited by CCB (5/24/2015 3:31 pm)


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5/24/2015 4:07 pm  #21


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

So what could be the cut off age??? The age an untested dog is worthy to be bred too??? 3-4 years???


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
     Thread Starter
 

5/24/2015 5:22 pm  #22


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

Uncle Ish wrote:

So what could be the cut off age??? The age an untested dog is worthy to be bred too??? 3-4 years???

I would say that would depend on multiple factors.  I think most importantly health and working ability.  I think a dog in the right home could definitely be tested and proven by 4 years of age.  I wouldn't be breeding an untested, unproven 18 month old on her second heat cycle.  That is what most of the breed is doing.

 


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5/25/2015 10:35 am  #23


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

i found out the hard way ,  if you make a habit of waiting 4yrs with bitches , your gonna lose some good contributors to repro problems , pyo , and cystic uterus are two i'm familiar with ........ around 3yrs seems to be less problematic .......the dogs i started with were pretty dysplastic , they would run till the tires come off the rims , that can take a long time ........ my dogue mouse was more athletic than any dog her size i have ever had or seen , she was agile and tireless , ran more miles in her life than any dog i've ever seen , 30-40 miles a week for years ,  maybe her daughter came close , her daughter would do 60miles on a long weekend , her daughter is  9yrs old right now , and will go 6miles without a problem , they were/are both mildly dysplastic , i would x-ray just to be sure i was  breeding  them up ..........

Last edited by me (5/25/2015 10:35 am)

 

5/25/2015 9:43 pm  #24


Re: HIP CHECK FEVER STILL BURNING???

That is crazy ME...


Uncle Ish

"Your humble servant"
     Thread Starter
 

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